| Isn't it? Read first. Some things are passive of faith others aren't, evolution is not something passive of faith. Faith is basically believing in what you can't see, in what there's no evidence or proof. Creationism for example, it's a matter of faith, you either believe or you don't. On the other hand, evolution is a proven "fact" on the scientific way. What you have on evolution is understanding, it's knowmledge, it's studying. It's a conclusion. Also, the term "evolutionism" doesn't even make sense, it gives the idea that evolution is an ideologie, since it isn't. Biological evolution is not an ideologie. Creationism IS an ideologie for example. But of course, inside of evolution there are the "ideologies" and ways of thinking, like Darwinism, Mutationism, like Cladisctic etc. Here's a TL;DR, even tough it doesn't explain well: I don't believe in evolution, the same way I don't believe in gravity, or that we are made of atoms. Facts are there, wether you like it or not. |
FragMentizedJun 10, 2017 10:15 AM
| Today they say you're crazy, tomorrow they will say you're a genious. |
| So basically believing a fact is kind of redundant? |
 "... Because when you live in this world of my closed eyes... ... Being alone is very lonely...". |
| Cool beans. So what are we supposed to discuss, cause this thread looks like spam. |
 |
| Discussing anything related, because I want to know people's point of view on it. |
| Today they say you're crazy, tomorrow they will say you're a genious. |
| I don't get why this thread exists. To roughly quote John Oliver "You don't ask for people's opinions on a fact." |
 |
| @NudeBear Well, you might be right, I've listened they are ideologies, but that's I put quotation marks there, because I didn't buy it a lot, they're lines of thinking inside of Evolution at least. @TheCobraSlayer And it's exactly because of that quote I made this thread. |
| Today they say you're crazy, tomorrow they will say you're a genious. |
| I still don't get it... Evolution is a fact, opinions don't matter on it. It's not like philosophy or morality where there's a ton of gray areas and room for opinion. |
|
| Hold on, first of all evolution is not a fact, it's a theory. And okay, believe in whatever you want, but you said you don't believe in gravity, even though you probably have no idea how gravity even works, because if you think of it not believing in gravity means that you also do not believe in time and space, so basically you don't believe in everything around you I guess? (which is still okay, everyone is free to believe in whatever he wants, but what you are saying is pretty weird) |
| you don't believe that we are made of atoms? but you can see them by putting your own arm under a powerful enough microscope |
 |
Daconator said: Evolution is a fact, the theory that explains it is a theory. Definition of fact - a thing that is known or proved to be true. If the theory behind it is still a theory then it is not a fact. Also: "All insects have 6 legs" - fact (100% true) "Barring the Sun, the closest star to Earth is actually a triple star system called Alpha Centauri, over four light years away." - not a fact (even tho it is probably true), the star may be gone by now/there might be a closer one. Do you see why evolution is not and will probably never be a fact or you need a detailed explanation? |
| It's a very well accepted scientific theory. The only part that's hard to grasp is how mutations can just occur randomly. But mutations do occur in populations, and it happens over a long span of time. When you look at populations over an expanded time scale, it's definitely reasonable to say that anomalous mutations can spark up in a population and lead to the creation of new species. "Life finds a way," as Dr. Malcom of "Jurrasic Park" said. |
| I CELEBRATE myself, And what I assume you shall assume, For every atom belonging to me as good belongs to you. |
kawaii96desu said: Do you even know what is a scientific theory? Hold on, first of all evolution is not a fact, it's a theory. And okay, believe in whatever you want, but you said you don't believe in gravity, even though you probably have no idea how gravity even works, because if you think of it not believing in gravity means that you also do not believe in time and space, so basically you don't believe in everything around you I guess? (which is still okay, everyone is free to believe in whatever he wants, but what you are saying is pretty weird) In science, a theory is what's the closest of being the truth, there's not 100% fact, that's why I used quotation marks, everything is relative. Evolution is a theory, not a hypothesis. Did you even read my thread? I said that gravity just exists, the same way evolution does. KazuyaKujo said: I don't believe we are made of atoms, I KNOW we are made of atoms.you don't believe that we are made of atoms? but you can see them by putting your own arm under a powerful enough microscope |
| Today they say you're crazy, tomorrow they will say you're a genious. |
| A scientific theory is still a theory, true, but a scientific theory in the vein of gravity or evolution is in practical terms, a fact. It means something slightly different in science. |
|
| I don't really see how evolution has been proved with evidence. Those "bones" could have easily been created by "God." I don't believe in creation either (anymore). We really can't prove anything about how our universe came to be. |
TobiOrNotTobi said: I don't really see how evolution has been proved with evidence. Those "bones" could have easily been created by "God." I don't believe in creation either (anymore). We really can't prove anything about how our universe came to be. So, you don't think that fossils are the bones of extinct species? You think they are just a trick? I mean, I'm a spiritual guy... but I definitely accept the scientific universe O_o You all must be taking the crazy pills lol... |
| I CELEBRATE myself, And what I assume you shall assume, For every atom belonging to me as good belongs to you. |
kawaii96desu said: A theory is not just some guess. Hold on, first of all evolution is not a fact, it's a theory. A theory is a framework that explains how something works. Gravitational theory is just a theory, germ theory is just a theory, musical theory is just a theory. When we talk about theories in scientific fields it means a model that explains how something works. |
 |
xrockxz89 said: TobiOrNotTobi said: I don't really see how evolution has been proved with evidence. Those "bones" could have easily been created by "God." I don't believe in creation either (anymore). We really can't prove anything about how our universe came to be. So, you don't think that fossils are the bones of extinct species? You think they are just a trick? I mean, I'm a spiritual guy... but I definitely accept the scientific universe O_o You all must be taking the crazy pills lol... I do believe that they once roamed the earth. What I meant to say was that we can't prove if they really roamed the earth "millions" of years ago. Yes, scientists have the technology, but even that alone can't prove if the earth really existed for billions of years. They could have been drowned from the "flood" for all we know. |
TobiOrNotTobi said: xrockxz89 said: So, you don't think that fossils are the bones of extinct species? You think they are just a trick? I mean, I'm a spiritual guy... but I definitely accept the scientific universe O_o You all must be taking the crazy pills lol... I do believe that they once roamed the earth. What I meant to say was that we can't prove if they really roamed the earth "millions" of years ago. Yes, scientists have the technology, but even that alone can't prove if the earth really existed for billions of years. They could have been drowned from the "flood" for all we know. It's not always easy to reconcile a religious worldview with a scientific one, but please understand. Carbon dating and scientific understanding definitely assures us that the Earth is billions of years old. It's this massive time scale which allows for evolution to take place. |
| I CELEBRATE myself, And what I assume you shall assume, For every atom belonging to me as good belongs to you. |
xrockxz89 said: TobiOrNotTobi said: I do believe that they once roamed the earth. What I meant to say was that we can't prove if they really roamed the earth "millions" of years ago. Yes, scientists have the technology, but even that alone can't prove if the earth really existed for billions of years. They could have been drowned from the "flood" for all we know. It's not always easy to reconcile a religious worldview with a scientific one, but please understand. Carbon dating and scientific understanding definitely assures us that the Earth is billions of years old. It's this massive time scale which allows for evolution to take place. If that's the case, then why aren't people believing these scientists that the earth is really billions of years old? Yes, people hold strong onto their faith, but they believe in gravity. SCIENTISTS proved gravity is real, and they also proved that evolution is real. In 2k years from now, people will start to believe that George Washington was just a myth. He was actually God pretending to be man, and according to most people, God isn't real. |
TobiOrNotTobi said: xrockxz89 said: It's not always easy to reconcile a religious worldview with a scientific one, but please understand. Carbon dating and scientific understanding definitely assures us that the Earth is billions of years old. It's this massive time scale which allows for evolution to take place. If that's the case, then why aren't people believing these scientists that the earth is really billions of years old? Yes, people hold strong onto their faith, but they believe in gravity. SCIENTISTS proved gravity is real, and they also proved that evolution is real. In 2k years from now, people will start to believe that George Washington was just a myth. He was actually God pretending to be man, and according to most people, God isn't real. Look, what the general population believes isn't really too important. What is important is understanding the scientific theories. You should at least know what it is they're talking about. You're not expected to see 'science' as some occult body which hands you down a worldview. I mean, we all learned this stuff in High School, supposedly, so you really shouldn't have too much trouble working with it. And don't worry, George Washington is pretty godly lol, I hope you know that. |
| I CELEBRATE myself, And what I assume you shall assume, For every atom belonging to me as good belongs to you. |
xrockxz89 said: TobiOrNotTobi said: If that's the case, then why aren't people believing these scientists that the earth is really billions of years old? Yes, people hold strong onto their faith, but they believe in gravity. SCIENTISTS proved gravity is real, and they also proved that evolution is real. In 2k years from now, people will start to believe that George Washington was just a myth. He was actually God pretending to be man, and according to most people, God isn't real. Look, what the general population believes isn't really too important. What is important is understanding the scientific theories. You should at least know what it is they're talking about. You're not expected to see 'science' as some occult body which hands you down a worldview. I mean, we all learned this stuff in High School, supposedly, so you really shouldn't have too much trouble working with it. And don't worry, George Washington is pretty godly lol, I hope you know that. I understand them, but that doesn't make them all true. This topic will always be a debate between humans, and it gets quite boring. And George Washington may be godly, but that doesn't make him God. There's a difference between a god and God. |
| Evolution is both fact and theory. This can go beyond biology and go right to philosophy and the meanings of the words theory and fact, but lets not go there. Lets just say that in science, the word theory carries much more weight than in everyday use. 1. Evolution is a theory because it's subject to continuing refinement as new areas of science emerge. 2. Generally, a fact is a theory that is been proved so many times that further investigation only leads to aiding it's continuous infinite journey to even accuracy, and as so firmly supported by evidence that it's consider it to be "true". But also, scientists use the term fact to refer to scientific explanations that have been tested and confirmed so many times that there is no longer a compelling reason to keep testing it, so in that sense evolution could be considered a fact. |
  ♦ Anime List ♦ Manga List ♦ Friend Request ♦ Message Me ♦ DeviantArt ♦ |
NudeBear said: Species evolve over time, that's a fact. Natural selection explains how this evolution occurs, that's the theory. Likewise *things fall* (gravity) is an observation/fact, an attempt to explain how and why things fall (newtons universal law of gravitation and general relativity) is the theory. You simply need to go back and revise your basics. Sorry kid, I don't have much time. I can only suggest watching less youtube videos. If you have an actual question just PM me. There is a major misunderstanding that gravity is just objects with mass being brought toward one another by some "unknown" force or at least that's probably what they teach you in elementary schools in the US but there is a bit more to it. Please make an actual research before typing something again. Frag- said: Do you even know what is a scientific theory? In science, a theory is what's the closest of being the truth, there's not 100% fact, that's why I used quotation marks, everything is relative. Evolution is a theory, not a hypothesis. Did you even read my thread? I said that gravity just exists, the same way evolution does. Yes, I do. Also, you found the answer you were looking for. It is logical to believe unless it is a 100% fact (one of the things you pointed above is not even close). Also you are bad at explaining stuff. (not that I'm any better.) It is always so funny watching atheists trying to "defeat" some stupid ass religion as both sides are usually trying to act smart and talk about stuff they are not familiar with. A: "Oh, I've watched a youtube video and it said that God doesn't exist and we were once monkeys tee-hee, I'm fucking scientist now (even though I'm still in mid school and my grades are not even that great)" B: "Burn in Hell! On Day 6 God created man and..." A's mother: "Dinner's ready!" A: "HiHiHi, wait mom I'm disproving christianity!" |
TobiOrNotTobi said: xrockxz89 said: Look, what the general population believes isn't really too important. What is important is understanding the scientific theories. You should at least know what it is they're talking about. You're not expected to see 'science' as some occult body which hands you down a worldview. I mean, we all learned this stuff in High School, supposedly, so you really shouldn't have too much trouble working with it. And don't worry, George Washington is pretty godly lol, I hope you know that. I understand them, but that doesn't make them all true. This topic will always be a debate between humans, and it gets quite boring. And George Washington may be godly, but that doesn't make him God. There's a difference between a god and God. Well with any luck it won't always be a debate. Personally I invite you to be a man of science. It's quite nice :) And uh, well this is on a tangent now, but yeah I just think George Washington is awesome so, yeah... lol... |
| I CELEBRATE myself, And what I assume you shall assume, For every atom belonging to me as good belongs to you. |
| Why is this the hot topic? I guess it's fun to read ridiculous posts hum |
kawaii96desu said: What does evolution have to do with religion? It is always so funny watching atheists trying to "defeat" some stupid ass religion as both sides are usually trying to act smart and talk about stuff they are not familiar with. This isn't the 1960s bible belt. |
don't worry, it definitely is lol. Pretty sure Trump's victory has direhard conservatives coming out of the woodwork... coming to a forum near you... |
| I CELEBRATE myself, And what I assume you shall assume, For every atom belonging to me as good belongs to you. |
| @kawaii96desu You don't even know what you're talking about, but it's confusing anyways. On science, a theory is what is most accepted to be truth, therefore it's truth, just like gravity, both exists on the scientific hand, so they are not passive of faith. I just don't see ANYTHING to be 100% accurate, nothing is 100% imo. But on science a "fact" is what's more likely to be the truth, so evolution is a "fact", and it has been comfirmed that beings are being adapted through the time. The same way that gravity keeps the universe stable, but it's not like it willl be 100% flawless, but it's what is accepted. I guess we are talking about "believing" in evolution, not about others religions. |
| Today they say you're crazy, tomorrow they will say you're a genious. |
Frag- said: I love sharing knowmledge, my friendo.Creationism for example, it's a matter of faith, you either believe or you don't. On the other hand, evolution is a proven "fact" on the scientific way. What you have on evolution is understanding, it's knowmledge, it's studying. It's a conclusion. |
xrockxz89 said: Oh, where I live it is. And has been. don't worry, it definitely is lol. Pretty sure Trump's victory has direhard conservatives coming out of the woodwork... coming to a forum near you... But I was referring to the current discussion, not the state of things. Idk. |
xrockxz89 said: Well with any luck it won't always be a debate. Personally I invite you to be a man of science. It's quite nice :) And uh, well this is on a tangent now, but yeah I just think George Washington is awesome so, yeah... lol... I used to be a creationist, but I just don't believe in anything (I'm not really an atheist either) anymore. One thing I always questioned when I was a christian was how God came into existence. I'd ask my father (he really studies the Bible), and he would avoid my question saying how we shouldn't question His existence and how God was just "always" there. I'd ask a few other people from church, and they said pretty much the same thing. It's funny, because they can't even defend their beliefs. I mean, everything has to come from somewhere right? Nothing can just be there. Something had to trigger something. |
TobiOrNotTobi said: I don't really see how evolution has been proved with evidence. Those "bones" could have easily been created by "God." I don't believe in creation either (anymore). We really can't prove anything about how our universe came to be. It's not simply bones my friend. That's not the only theory. And it's not just human evolution that is being tested. There are so many theories, you just gotta research it more. For example, the chloroplast was created from symbiosis between Eukaryotes and Blue-green bacteria. Between it's to membranes the Blue-green bacteria had a "cell wall", but the chloroplast didn't, or so it was thought. So tell me, did God also bother to leave cell wall remnants (A cell wall that simply is no longer needed) between two membranes on the chloroplast of glaucophytes compared to all recent species that posses a chloroplast? It's direct link between a current species and it's ancestor. |
♦ Anime List ♦ Manga List ♦ Friend Request ♦ Message Me ♦ DeviantArt ♦ |
rawrX3pounces said: xrockxz89 said: Oh, where I live it is. And has been. don't worry, it definitely is lol. Pretty sure Trump's victory has direhard conservatives coming out of the woodwork... coming to a forum near you... But I was referring to the current discussion, not the state of things. Idk. I'm even talking about on MAL, yeah i do live in the Bible belt as well haha. IDK maybe it's always been like that. |
| I CELEBRATE myself, And what I assume you shall assume, For every atom belonging to me as good belongs to you. |
| Currently, the major parts of evolution people refer to can't be observed. Like, humans evolving from cavemen, dinosaurs, etc. However, what we can do is make assumptions on what we currently know and are able to observe. So yeah, it's logical to hold evolution in some regard. But it's also not out of the realm of possibilities to believe in the teachings of religion. There's no species we know of that are advanced as humans. |
Frag- said: Isn't it? Read first. Some things are passive of faith others aren't, evolution is not something passive of faith. Faith is basically believing in what you can't see, in what there's no evidence or proof. Creationism for example, it's a matter of faith, you either believe or you don't. On the other hand, evolution is a proven "fact" on the scientific way. What you have on evolution is understanding, it's knowmledge, it's studying. It's a conclusion. Also, the term "evolutionism" doesn't even make sense, it gives the idea that evolution is an ideologie, since it isn't. Biological evolution is not an ideologie. Creationism IS an ideologie for example. But of course, inside of evolution there are the "ideologies" and ways of thinking, like Darwinism, Mutationism, like Cladisctic etc. Here's a TL;DR, even tough it doesn't explain well: I don't believe in evolution, the same way I don't believe in gravity, or that we are made of atoms. Facts are there, wether you like it or not. Evolution can be both a fact and a belief , if your talking about the evolution of bacteria in which is simply turn to just another bacteria then you have a point , and the same goes to the idea of the cat family sharing a common ancestor , the same goes with horses and donkeys . but if your talking about one kind of Creature evolving into a completely different thing, like bears to whales or my least fav dino-birds, then yes, thats a belief weather people wanted to admit it or not, unless they get to see it happens , and no Fossil records don't prove it beyond debt , we need to see it happens |
Raptors0verlordJun 11, 2017 5:45 PM
 |
| No, it's not. But it's logical to believe in logic. |
| Be thankful for the wisdom granted to you. |
spuukiebuugi said: more logical than a floating dude in the sky That guy definitely denies gravity with all his might. |
Eight-Man said: Remember, be an artist, not an autist. "If anything simply cannot go wrong it will anyway." ~ Murphy's 5th law |
| @Raptors0verlord Wrong. Just the first one is correct, and that's what evolution means. The second one is origin of life and has nothing to do with evolution, also it's more to be a fact and not a faith. Lord_Sithis said: wtf? lolWe stopped human evolution, so who cares? :D Every kind of alive being in the world is evolving all the time. |
| Today they say you're crazy, tomorrow they will say you're a genious. |
| I don't really care about these subjects, but one thing is for sure. We are here, and many of us spend our entire lives trying to figure out just why we are! Even though there is not one reason out there that can be backed up with 100% fact and confidence. Just ideas. Just theories. Just blind beliefs, whatever. But ultimately. There is no absolute (101% evidence, out there.) |
Lord_Sithis said: Apparently YOU don't know how evolution works lolFrag- said: Do you know how evolution works? You don't.wtf? lol Every kind of alive being in the world is evolving all the time. Evolution can't be stopped. |
| Today they say you're crazy, tomorrow they will say you're a genious. |
| tfw dudes don't really know how evolution works |
| I CELEBRATE myself, And what I assume you shall assume, For every atom belonging to me as good belongs to you. |
Lord_Sithis said: Yes, almost everything right. If you mean by "stong", adapted, yes.OK, so here's a very basic explanation: The weak individuals of a species die, the strong ones survive. Since the strong ones survive, they get to pass down their genes, and more individuals with the strong's genes are born. This continues endlessly and that's how a species "evolves". This is a proven fact that I hope you agree with... Now let's look at human society. Many weak people don't die, because we have advanced technology and medicine to help them. So they'll survive and pass down their genes, thus there will be more weak humans. The process of natural selection was severely damaged because of this. So (at least biological) evolution of the human species was stopped thanks to humanity itself. Now go read a book called "On the Origin of Species" so you better understand evolution. Evolution just implies that species will suffer genetic modification through their adaptation on the enviroment, that can't be stopped. If something happens in the world or in the enviroment, the most adapted genes will survive to that changes, and humans are not excluded of that (if their descendent do survive there). You can also technically say that everyone is "evolving" when they are born since their genes are being passed with new ones, you don't necessarily need to create a new species or taxon over that. (I'm not sure on this one though) If there's life, there's evolution, that can't be stopped, in theory it can't at least. If you keep just telling that I will ignore it. Of course there's much more than that, that's why it is called synthetic theory of evolution, but in general it's what I said. |
| Today they say you're crazy, tomorrow they will say you're a genious. |
More topics from this board
» If MAL was an RPG, how many Towns (or countries) would there be AND WHAT WILL YOU NAME THEM?IpreferEcchi - Yesterday |
9 |
by Eldinis
»»
12 minutes ago |
|
» What's your favorite flower?NS2D - 3 hours ago |
8 |
by Eldinis
»»
17 minutes ago |
|
» Blocking people on the netLeonhartAugust - 3 hours ago |
5 |
by Shishio-kun
»»
21 minutes ago |
|
» Neets, do you still have the desire to change even though you feel beaten down by Life and societyRainyEvenings - Yesterday |
19 |
by MYZIC
»»
1 hour ago |
|
» Is it wrong to ship users together?fleurbleue - 12 hours ago |
43 |
by Zakatsuki_
»»
1 hour ago |